Murray Smith

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Posts by Murray Smith

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  43

  I'm a Mess

  by headisspinning in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am an emotional mess.. yesterday, i was so firm.

  today i feel like crying.

  it was a lovely, sunny day here.

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  Murray Smith

  Very moving story Salty . . . thanks for taking the time to post.

  Luvonyall
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  5

  CULT Characteristics - Discovery Channel

  by Murray Smith in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been done to death in the past, but thought it worth a post for those who may not yet have made an evaluation of jehovah's witnesses in this light.

  not all characteristics are mirrored exactly by jehovah's witnesses, but the chief factors described below are present to a disturbing degree.

  i have highlighted the obvious areas of correlation.

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  Murray Smith

  I know this topic has been done to death in the past, but thought it worth a post for those who may not yet have made an evaluation of Jehovah's Witnesses in this light. Not all characteristics are mirrored exactly by Jehovah's Witnesses, but the chief factors described below are present to a disturbing degree. I have highlighted the obvious areas of correlation. This somewhat abbreviated breakdown is otherwise unedited and lifted from the Discovery Channel website. Comments welcome.

  What characterizes a destructive cult?

  A destructive cult, or a doomsday cult, has all the elements of a general cult but to a greater degree. It's headed by a charismatic single leader who demands complete loyalty. It uses deceptive recruiting tactics and is isolationist, with strict supervision over the daily lives of its members. The members speak an inside language that only they know, and draw sharp distinctions between good (us) and evil (them). A well-known example of a doomsday cult is The People's Temple, which was headed by Reverend James Warren Jones in Jonestown, Guyana. What began as a charitable organization with a medical clinic and drug rehab program spiraled out of control, ending in the deaths of more than 900 devotees in 1978.

  What is meant by the phrase "cult of personality"?

  The term cult of personality refers to a certain dynamic whereby the cult members worship their leadertotally, unquestionably, not just because of his ideas or philosophy. Accordingly, the leader has total control over his devotees. Cult members in this scenario believe that only their leader can save them from the gates of hell and lead them to salvation. Many examples of cult of personality were born out of a charismatic personality who was rejected and ousted by the mainstream religion and who formed a break-away religion, dragging adherents with him. One example was Branch Davidian leader David Koresh, whose Waco, Texas compound was destroyed in 1993 after a long shootout with federal agents.

  Why is money an important factor in cults?

  The nature of cults is such that individuals lose their sense of self and relinquish their independence. And the cult needs money for accommodation, food, clothing and sometimes the leader's pocket. While some cults access cash through legitimate means, others will use illegal means to do so. This may entail fraud or tax evasion, but it often entails deceptive fundraising techniques or demands upon new members to make significant financial contributions.

  Are all cults religious by nature?

  Most but not all cults - - especially destructive cults - - are religious in nature. Some cults have financial or political roots. They are all similar in controlling individuals to the extent that the leader achieves his religious or political ends, or lines his own pocket. All of these cults play on the vulnerabilities of the recruits and seek to draw in converts. These converts end up prepared to give up their lives or kill others in order to obey their leader and serve his will. Some cults run seminars and retreats, enticing people with the promise of psychological and spiritual healing. Many of them also drain people's pockets in the process.

  Is it easy to leave a cult?

  In most cases, it's far easier to get into a cult than out. A few cults will allow members to leave of their own volition, though they will apply pressure to stay. In the majority of cases, a member is either too brainwashed to leave or is threatened if he does so. As for threats of bodily harm, this is all too common in cults, with the Jonestown suicide-murders a case in point. Finally, there are instances of members being forcibly removed from the cult by people from the outside; in such cases, the only ways to save the person are through deprogramming and exit counseling.

  How is cult recruitment executed?

  Recruitment to a cult usually takes place at college campuses, spiritual retreats, unemployment offices, support groups or religious gatherings. Recruitment techniques typically involve deception and manipulation. Recruiters often play to the stress and vulnerability of the candidates, masking the true nature of the group's intentions or promising spiritual rewards. Often, the recruits know the recruiters personally. Once the recruit has bitten the bait, the cult will use isolationist tactics to keep him from sharing his doubts, if any, with others.

  How is thought reform used by cults?

  Thought reform has many names: mind control, brainwashing, indoctrination, coercive persuasion. These terms all refer to the systematic breakdown of an individual's sense of self. Thought reform is the primary technique of cult dynamics, to the extent that a cult member will do what he might otherwise not do. This is accomplished through induced dependency, dread of disobeying the god-like leader and isolation from mainstream culture. The indoctrinated cult member will embrace the group and its leader by subjugating his own thinking and allow himself to remain under the total control of the cult.

  What personality traits is a cult recruit likely to have?

  Research has shown that people who are recruited into a cult are likely to have a higher-than-normal incidence of psychiatric disorder and are probably undergoing some form of stress at the time of recruitment. Psychologist Michael Langone identified additional traits of likely recruits: dependency stemming from low self-confidence; gullibility; unassertiveness, with a reluctance to question authority; disillusionment with the status quo; low tolerance for uncertainty; blind belief or naïve idealism; and a desire for spiritual meaning.

  What's the difference between a cult and a religion?

  The American Heritage Dictionary has defined a cult as "a religion or religious sect generally considered extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader." A cult and a religion are comparable in terms of spirituality, faith and ritual. Where a cult differs is in its deviation from the mainstream, its typical requirement of a commitment to the group and its worshipful behavior by the devotees toward a single, charismatic leader. A religion, by contrast, is often considered mainstream, will have different levels of commitment on the part of its adherents and will have a hierarchy of leadership.

  Do deprogramming and exit counseling work for former cultists?

  Deprogramming takes place after the forcible removal of a member of a cult. Tremendous investments of time and money must be made to deprogram him so that he can readjust to society. The ex-cult member is led through a debriefing regimen aimed to get him to think for himself. Deprogramming techniques were more common in the 1970s but the necessary kidnapping, expense for a security detail, and controversial lawsuits led to a rethinking of this technique. Nowadays, exit counseling is the preferred form of action and aims at attracting the cult member to voluntarily undergo debriefing. Family members are involved and psychological means are applied to encourage the cult member to seek an out. In any case, an ex-cult member will often experience psychological scarring for many years after escape.
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  106

  I'm Starting To Understand Atheist and Evolution

  by Philadelphia Ponos in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for many years i was sincerely perplexed when someone told me they believed in the evolution theory or were an atheist.

  i never understood how someone could ignore all the evidence for intelligent design and overlook all the holes in the evolution theory.

  for example, the human biology clock is synced with the rotation of the earth, the earth is the perfect distance away from the sun to sustain life, the earth has an ozone layer to protect us from the sun's radiation, the earth naturally produces fruits and vegetables to be used for food, our bodies produce enzymes to break down the fruits and vegetables so it can nourish us, the earth produces water and oxygen, etc.

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  Murray Smith

  FollowedMyHeart said . . .

  So I've started reading. There are a lot of good sources on this post that I am looking forward to examining! Thanks, everyone!

  What a refreshingly commendable attitude! . . . "Truth" not only survives scrutiny . . . it's validated by it!

  All credit to you FMH . . . be interested to hear your findings/conclusions.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  106

  I'm Starting To Understand Atheist and Evolution

  by Philadelphia Ponos in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for many years i was sincerely perplexed when someone told me they believed in the evolution theory or were an atheist.

  i never understood how someone could ignore all the evidence for intelligent design and overlook all the holes in the evolution theory.

  for example, the human biology clock is synced with the rotation of the earth, the earth is the perfect distance away from the sun to sustain life, the earth has an ozone layer to protect us from the sun's radiation, the earth naturally produces fruits and vegetables to be used for food, our bodies produce enzymes to break down the fruits and vegetables so it can nourish us, the earth produces water and oxygen, etc.

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  Murray Smith

  I believe that conceptually, the theory of evolution fits the evidence . . . evidence that I have spent countless hours researching.

  Question answered.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  106

  I'm Starting To Understand Atheist and Evolution

  by Philadelphia Ponos in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for many years i was sincerely perplexed when someone told me they believed in the evolution theory or were an atheist.

  i never understood how someone could ignore all the evidence for intelligent design and overlook all the holes in the evolution theory.

  for example, the human biology clock is synced with the rotation of the earth, the earth is the perfect distance away from the sun to sustain life, the earth has an ozone layer to protect us from the sun's radiation, the earth naturally produces fruits and vegetables to be used for food, our bodies produce enzymes to break down the fruits and vegetables so it can nourish us, the earth produces water and oxygen, etc.

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  Murray Smith

  All I'm seeing is more theories, assumptions, and speculation

  So you've done all the research on limestone? . . . boy that was quick . . . It took me a full semester.

  Quite obviously . . . "All you're seeing" is "all you want to see" . . . you have a closed (or controlled) mind.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  106

  I'm Starting To Understand Atheist and Evolution

  by Philadelphia Ponos in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for many years i was sincerely perplexed when someone told me they believed in the evolution theory or were an atheist.

  i never understood how someone could ignore all the evidence for intelligent design and overlook all the holes in the evolution theory.

  for example, the human biology clock is synced with the rotation of the earth, the earth is the perfect distance away from the sun to sustain life, the earth has an ozone layer to protect us from the sun's radiation, the earth naturally produces fruits and vegetables to be used for food, our bodies produce enzymes to break down the fruits and vegetables so it can nourish us, the earth produces water and oxygen, etc.

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  Murray Smith

  The earth may be old, the earth may be young but datting rocks is quasi science, it does not follow the scientific

  method.

  The only evidence we have as to the age of the earth is recorded history, beyond that we havent a clue.

  Tell me your just joking . . . . please.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  29

  Hello everyone

  by jean-luc picard in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im new to your site so ill present myself.

  its been 15 years since i escaped the borg.

  i was in a unhappy marriage.

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  Murray Smith

  Welcome aboard jlp . . . very interesting post, but no suprises. I know that"distance" that is always there . . . All I can think somtimes is "how things might have been." You very much belong here . . . look forward to you staying awhile. Welcome.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  18

  Are Spade and Alice the same poster?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've seen comments that suggest it but haven't really kept up with spade so i'm just curious if anyone has shown substantial reason to believe they're the same poster.. if so, that would make spade's comment from this thread i just ran across...... spade: it's charming how so many people here air there family's dirty laundry online.. ...particularly hypocritical in light of what she posted in this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/family/196218/1/my-letter-to-my-aunt.

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  so is spade just another troll or is it the latest reincarnation of a troll previously known as alice?.

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  Murray Smith

  There seems to be an uncomfortable number of posters here who like to hold down certain keys on the keyboard and add the word "DUH" when they post . . .

  Unfortunately, this practice deflects attention away from whatever point they are trying to make by turning it into a personal attack on the other contributors to the thread . . . a practice which doesn't offend me, but over time it becomes tiresome and diminishes my interest.

  Pointing out CBJ's illogical paradox was just my way of lodging my protest.

  Of course, the point made is valid . . . as Black Sheep demonstrated . . . the irony is that I may very well take that advice . . . as many posters who are no longer here might have done also.

  Byeyall - MS
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  18

  Are Spade and Alice the same poster?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've seen comments that suggest it but haven't really kept up with spade so i'm just curious if anyone has shown substantial reason to believe they're the same poster.. if so, that would make spade's comment from this thread i just ran across...... spade: it's charming how so many people here air there family's dirty laundry online.. ...particularly hypocritical in light of what she posted in this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/family/196218/1/my-letter-to-my-aunt.

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  so is spade just another troll or is it the latest reincarnation of a troll previously known as alice?.

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  Murray Smith

  Who cares?????????

  You don't like a post...........

  Don't read or reply....DUH!!!

  My mistake . . . I thought he was an "amateur moaner"
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  18

  Are Spade and Alice the same poster?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've seen comments that suggest it but haven't really kept up with spade so i'm just curious if anyone has shown substantial reason to believe they're the same poster.. if so, that would make spade's comment from this thread i just ran across...... spade: it's charming how so many people here air there family's dirty laundry online.. ...particularly hypocritical in light of what she posted in this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/family/196218/1/my-letter-to-my-aunt.

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  so is spade just another troll or is it the latest reincarnation of a troll previously known as alice?.

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  Murray Smith

  Hey . . . Charlie Brown Jr . . . how can you not like a post without reading it?

  And if you read it . . . don't like it . . . why not say so? . . . just curious.

  Luvonyall - MS